概述
Episode 106 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week your hosts are Kevin Yank (@sentience), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy, and Brad Williams (@williamsba). SitePoint Podcast的第106集现已发布！ 本周的主持人是Kevin Yank( @sentience )，Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )，Patrick O'Keefe( @ifroggy和Brad Williams( @williamsba ))。 You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link: 您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：
Here are the topics covered in this episode: 以下是本集中介绍的主题： Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/106. 浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/106中显示的参考链接的完整列表。 Kevin: Don’t Make Me Steal: Digital Media Consumption Manifesto 凯文：《 别让我偷》：数字媒体消费宣言 Patrick: Epic Rap Battles of History 帕特里克： 史诗般的说唱历史战 Stephan: Vimeo iPhone/iPad App 斯蒂芬： Vimeo iPhone / iPad应用程序 Brad: Is HTML5 Ready Yet? 布拉德： HTML5准备好了吗？ Kevin: And it’s Friday which means it’s podcast time, and we’ve got the whole gang together again, hey Brad, Patrick, Stephan. 凯文：今天是星期五，这意味着播客时间，我们又将整个团伙召集到一起，嘿，布拉德，帕特里克，斯蒂芬。 Stephan: Howdy, howdy. 史蒂芬：你好，你好。 Brad: Hello. 布拉德：你好。 Patrick: Hello. 帕特里克：你好。 Kevin: We’re trying something a little new this week, usually we meticulously plan our stories in advance and we know what order we’re going to discuss them in, but we’ve decided to go blind this week just to see how it works because we’re going to surprise each other with our stories this week and we’ll see how this goes. So who wants to start? 凯文：本周我们在尝试一些新的东西，通常我们会事先精心计划故事，我们知道要按什么顺序讨论它们，但是我们决定在本周不做任何准备，只是为了看看它如何之所以行之有效，是因为我们本周要用我们的故事互相惊讶，我们将看看情况如何。 那么谁想开始？ Stephan: Brad, I vote for you. 史蒂芬：布拉德，我投赞成票。 Kevin: You vote for Brad, what have you got for us, Brad? 凯文：你投票给布拉德，布拉德，你为我们带来了什么？ Brad: Well, why not. I actually brought a story that highlights MySpace which is probably not something we’ve talked about in a long time on this show. 布拉德：恩，为什么不呢？ 实际上，我带来了一个突出MySpace的故事，这可能不是我们很长时间以来在该节目中谈论的话题。 Kevin: (Laughs) okay, we’re going retro. 凯文：(笑)好吧，我们要复古了。 Brad: Yeah, we’re definitely going retro, but it’s interesting because it’s a chart as well and everybody loves a good chart, but it was released an article that came out in the Wall Street Journal that showed essentially the advertising revenue on MySpace over the past five years. And I thought it was a really interesting chart in the way it starts in 2006; I actually wish it went back one more year, 2005, which is the year they got purchased, but it starts in 2006 and the ad revenue in 2006 which was just over 200 million looks to be maybe 220, 230 million; it doesn’t have exact numbers. It peaked in 2008 at 600 million, which is quite a bit of money, and for 2011 they’ve actually forecasted it’s going to be under 200 million, so within three short years it’s gone from almost 600 million to under 200 million. And I think what struck me, it’s not a surprise, I mean do any of you guys actively use MySpace anymore, I certainly don’t. 布拉德：是的，我们肯定会过时的，但是很有趣，因为它也是一张图表，每个人都喜欢一张好的图表，但是它在《华尔街日报》上发表了一篇文章，从本质上讲MySpace在过去五年。 我认为从2006年开始，这是一个非常有趣的图表； 我实际上希望它可以再回溯到2005年，也就是他们购买的那一年，但它始于2006年，2006年的广告收入刚刚超过2亿，看起来可能是220、2.3亿； 它没有确切的数字。 它在2008年达到了6亿美元的峰值，这是一笔不小的数目，而到2011年，他们实际上已经预测该数字将低于2亿，因此在短短三年内，它已经从近6亿上升到2亿以下。 我想让我感到惊讶的是，这并不奇怪，我的意思是你们中的任何一个都不再积极使用MySpace了，我当然不会。 Kevin: Nooo. 凯文：不。 Patrick: No, I don’t, I don’t. 帕特里克：不，我不，我不。 Brad: Yeah, so I don’t think the numbers are that surprising, but what I thought was interesting and kind of piqued my interest is that how can a site that’s so big, you know at one point MySpace was sitting on top of the world and they owned the social networking space, everybody had them, car commercials were advertising their MySpace page; how can you go from that to being something that is not even worth what they paid for from what people are estimating. 布拉德：是的，所以我认为这个数字并不令人惊讶，但是我认为很有趣，并且引起我兴趣的是，一个如此大的网站如何能够一次就知道MySpace位于世界，他们拥有社交网络空间，每个人都有他们，汽车广告在宣传他们的MySpace页面； 你怎么能从那个变成一个不值得人们根据人们所估计的东西付出的东西。 Kevin: Yeah, yeah. Well, hang on, how much did they pay for it? 凯文：是的，是的。 好吧，等等，他们花了多少钱？ Brad: They paid, yeah; in July of 2005 it was purchased for 580 million. 布拉德：是的，他们付了钱。 在2005年7月，它以5.8亿美元被购买。 Patrick: Well, if they took some money off the table they could’ve got that back, I mean I assume they were profitable. 帕特里克：嗯，如果他们从桌子上拿走一些钱，他们本来可以收回的，我的意思是我认为他们是有利润的。 Brad: It’s now being valued at around 50 to 200 million. 布拉德：现在的价值约为50到2亿。 Kevin: Yeah, it’s hard to decide. 凯文：是的，这很难决定。 Patrick: Who knows? I was just saying the other day on Twitter that I would love to be given the reigns of MySpace. 帕特里克：谁知道？ 我刚才在Twitter上说过，我很想获得MySpace的统治。 Kevin: I remember back in the day with the SitePoint marketplace if you were selling a site on the SitePoint marketplace generally the benchmark was, correct me if I’m wrong here, it was like two years of revenue. So if you said my site is making $10,000 a year you could expect to sell it for roughly $20,000, all else being equal. So by that measure MySpace was sold at a very fair price, but you’re right, Patrick, we don’t know what they’re spending in costs. 凯文(Kevin)：我记得当初使用SitePoint市场时，如果您在SitePoint市场上出售网站，通常基准是，如果我错了，请纠正我，这就像两年的收入。 因此，如果您说我的网站每年能赚10,000美元，那么您可以期望以大约20,000美元的价格出售它，而其他所有条件都是一样的。 因此，按照这种方式，MySpace的价格非常合理，但是帕特里克，您是对的，我们不知道他们在成本上花了多少钱。 Brad: I think so the question is this happened to MySpace, they were on top, do you guys think this could happen to Facebook or Twitter or even Google for that matter? 布拉德：我认为问题就出在MySpace上，他们居首位，你们是否认为这可能发生在Facebook或Twitter甚至Google身上？ Kevin: Oh, the wheel turns, I think nothing’s forever on the Internet. 凯文：哦，方向盘转了，我认为互联网上永远都没有。 Stephan: I think it just proves that it’s how weak or how fragile this ecommerce online thing is, I mean it really is when you think about it; it took them three years to fall below their previous high, their ultra-high, that’s not that long in a business, you know, I don’t know, I think it proves fragility. 史蒂芬：我认为这只是证明了这件电子商务在线产品的脆弱性或脆弱性，我的意思是，这确实是您想到的时候。 他们花了三年的时间才跌破之前的高点，也就是他们的超高点，在一家公司工作了不长时间，你知道，我不知道，我认为这证明了它的脆弱性。 Kevin: When is the last time one of you visited a MySpace page? I have to admit I did it this morning. 凯文：你们中的一个人什么时候最后一次访问MySpace页面？ 我必须承认我是今天早上做的。 Patrick: Yeah, I do it regularly I would say because a lot of — I mean there’s still — I mean people slam MySpace all the time. I was just at a presentation at South by Southwest and I mentioned MySpace and of course it’s like a joke in the tech space, so people giggle or whatever and I make some snarky remark, but then I said, you know what, MySpace gets more traffic than most everyone in this room combined, so as down as they may be there’s still something they can do here, and actually it’s funny that you brought this up because I mentioned on Twitter like a few days ago, I said, you know I wish someone would give me the helm of, or put me at the helm of MySpace, for a day, because it’s an interesting opportunity, I’d love to have the chance to turn them around, so to speak, and get them back to where they were before because I definitely think it’s possible, like you said, nothing is forever and that’s up or down. 帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我会定期说，因为很多–我的意思是–我的意思是人们一直在抨击MySpace。 我刚刚在South by Southwest的一个演讲中提到MySpace，这当然像是在科技领域开个玩笑，所以人们咯咯笑着，我发表了一些nar昧的话，但是后来我说，你知道吗，MySpace得到了更多流量要比这个房间中大多数人的总和还多，所以可能会下降，因为他们仍然可以在这里做些事，实际上很有趣，因为我像几天前在Twitter上提到的那样，提出了这一点，我说，你知道我希望有人能给我一天，或让我担任MySpace的一天，因为这是一个有趣的机会，我很想有机会让他们转身，可以这么说，然后让他们回到就像你说的那样，我绝对认为这是有可能的，没有什么是永远的，而且它正在上升或下降。 Brad: There are actually, it’s sad to say, there are a few businesses around me that I go to that their website is still MySpace, and you go to it, and they’re places to eat, and you go to their MySpace page and they’ve literally scanned their menu and that’s all it is on MySpace, it cringes me to go there but they have such great food. 布拉德：实际上有，它的悲伤地说，还有我身边的几个企业，我去他们的网站仍然是MySpace和你去了，和他们吃饭的地方，你去他们的MySpace页面他们从字面上扫描了菜单，仅此而已，就在MySpace上，这使我无法进入那里，但他们的食物真好。 Kevin: Wow. 凯文：哇。 Patrick: Some clubs, some restaurants, musicians. 帕特里克：一些俱乐部，一些餐馆，音乐家。 Kevin: I definitely still see bands all over MySpace, that’s the only reason I seem to go to MySpace anymore is because I want to — I’m thinking about buying the record, the digital album of a band, and I want to sample their music and I check out where is their website and, yeah, pretty often still indie bands have their website, quote/unquote, on MySpace, and that’s what happened this morning, I was checking out some music from I think it is Memphis which is the side project of the lead singer of Stars from Montreal. 凯文：我绝对仍然可以在MySpace上看到乐队，这就是我似乎再去MySpace的唯一原因，是因为我想-我正在考虑购买唱片，乐队的数字专辑，并且想对其采样音乐，然后查看他们的网站在哪里，是的，仍然有很多独立乐队在MySpace上进行他们的网站的报价/取消报价，这就是今天早上发生的事情，我正在检查一些我认为是孟菲斯的音乐来自蒙特利尔的星空乐队主唱的副业。 Patrick: And to their credit, MySpace actually has, you know, they have a decent licensing deal in place with the labels so they stream full albums for just a ton of different artists, so if you want to listen to a full album legally there’s a good chance that MySpace can help you out. And I’m not saying they’re the only source of that, but they definitely played the music arena I think at least somewhat well. 帕特里克(Patrick)：值得赞扬的是，MySpace实际上已经与唱片公司达成了不错的许可协议，因此他们可以为大量不同的艺术家播放完整专辑，因此，如果您想合法地收听完整专辑， MySpace可以帮助您的好机会。 我并不是说它们是唯一的来源，但我认为他们至少在音乐舞台上发挥了一定作用。 Kevin: So what’s the story behind this graph? Obviously it peaks in 2008 and this year is the first year where it’s looking like revenue from advertising, which we can only assume is the bulk of their revenue — 凯文：那么这张图背后的故事是什么？ 显然，它是在2008年达到顶峰的，而今年是广告收入的第一年，我们只能假设这是广告收入的大部分- Patrick: And it’s only U.S. also. 帕特里克：而且也是美国。 Kevin: — is going to be less than what it was when they purchased it, assuming the graph was about the same in 2005 as it is in 2006. So this is the first year where MySpace is not paying off as much as it did when it was purchased, that seems to me a pretty good investment, you know, you buy a site for roughly 500 million you said, Brad? 凯文： —将会比他们购买时的价格要少，假设该图表在2005年与2006年大致相同。因此，这是MySpace回报不如当年的第一年。它是购买的，在我看来，这是一笔相当不错的投资，您知道，您以大约5亿美元的价格购买了一个网站，布拉德？ Brad: 580, yeah. 布拉德： 580，是的。 Kevin: 580, so you buy a site for that and you make, what, five years of consistent advertising revenue, seems to me probably the best you could hope from acquiring a social network these days, am I wrong? 凯文(Kevin)： 580，所以您为此买了一个网站，然后您连续五年获得了稳定的广告收入，对我来说，这似乎是您最近希望通过收购社交网络获得的最好成绩，对吗？ Brad: I wouldn’t complain. 布拉德：我不会抱怨。 Patrick: No, I think you’re fine. And I mean not to put too much weight in Alexa, but Alexa says they’re the 40th most visited website in the U.S., and they’re also top 100 in various other countries as well like the UK, and like I said, this chart is only U.S. revenue so it’s unclear what maybe they did or are doing with other countries where they receive a substantial amount of traffic and that’s Canada, that’s Australia, they’re 74th most visited site in Australia, Italy, Germany and so on, so there’s more revenue to be made than just what’s on this chart. 帕特里克：不，我认为你很好。 我的意思是不要对Alexa施加太大的压力，但Alexa表示它们是美国访问量排名第 40的网站，而且在英国等其他国家/地区也排名前100，就像我说的那样，该图表仅是美国的收入，因此尚不清楚他们可能与其他国家/地区进行过或正在与其他国家/地区进行交流，在这些国家/地区获得大量访问量的国家/地区是加拿大，澳大利亚，在澳大利亚，意大利，德国等国家/地区中，访问量排名第 74 位继续，因此可以赚到的收益比这张图表上的要多。 Kevin: The stories we’ve heard coming out from behind the scenes of MySpace, the massive layoffs and stuff like that, when I weigh that along with this graph this starts to look like a bit like a pump and dump sort of situation where they acquired it in 2005, they pumped up the ad revenue to its bursting point in 2008, basically wrecked the site and the experience with ads, and since then it’s been on a steady slide into obscurity, is that too harsh? 凯文：我们听到的故事来自MySpace的幕后故事，大量的裁员之类的事情，当我权衡一下这张图时，开始看起来像是抽水倒车的情况，他们在2005年收购了它，他们将广告收入提高到了2008年的最高点，从根本上破坏了网站和广告的体验，从那时起，它就一直在不知不觉中滑落，这太苛刻了吗？ Stephan: I don’t think they’re obscure I just think that they’re slowly falling by the wayside. 斯蒂芬：我不认为他们是晦涩难懂，我只是认为他们正在慢慢跌倒。 Patrick: I think Facebook entered at a good time, they were different enough, they kind of reigned in the controls that MySpace allowed you, not to say that MySpace gave you tons of control, but people obviously had customized pages a lot more than Facebook for better or for worse. And so Facebook sort of provided this controlled setup I would say, and I guess that’s what people wanted and that’s where they flocked, plus of course it’s not so much the design stuff for me anyway as Facebook just tying the technology in extremely well and just tying all aspects of your life into one relatively simple application, so I think that’s where it went to Facebook. 帕特里克(Patrick)：我认为Facebook进入的时机很好，它们足够不同，它们在MySpace允许您使用的控件中占了上风，并不是说MySpace给了您大量的控件，但是显然，自定义页面比Facebook多得多不管是好是坏。 因此，我想说的是，Facebook提供了这种受控的设置，我想这就是人们想要的，而这正是他们蜂拥而至的地方。当然，对于我而言，这并不是设计的全部，因为Facebook只是将技术完美地结合在一起将您生活的各个方面都绑定到一个相对简单的应用程序中，所以我认为这就是去Facebook的地方。 Kevin: The other brush with MySpace I had in the past week was to do with a DreamHost outage. Do any of you guys still host sites on DreamHost? 凯文：过去一周我在MySpace上遇到的另一个问题是与DreamHost中断有关。 你们还有人在DreamHost上托管网站吗？ Patrick: No, sir. 帕特里克：不，先生。 Brad: No. 布拉德：不。 Kevin: No? Have you ever used DreamHost? 凯文：不？ 您曾经使用过DreamHost吗？ Stephan: I believe I did a long time ago. 史蒂芬：我相信我很久以前就做过。 Brad: I’ve had a few clients on it but not personally. 布拉德：我有几个客户，但没有个人。 Kevin: Yeah, well DreamHost, you know when I say DreamHost what do you think, what’s your impression of DreamHost from the outside? 凯文：是的，DreamHost，你知道我所说的DreamHost时你怎么看，从外部对DreamHost的印象如何？ Patrick: I have no impression really. 帕特里克：我真的没有印象。 Brad: Cheap shared hosting (laughter). 布拉德：便宜的共享主机(笑声)。 Kevin: Cheap shared hosting, that’s about it. Yeah, SitePoint maintains a DreamHost account just when we need to chuck something up that is not mission critical, and in the past week we realized we mistakenly left the blog for Learnable.com our new site. Learnable.com itself, the site, the application, everything from the store right through to taking courses online, that’s all hosted on a modern Amazon EC2 cloud hosted stack, but the blog which was up during the whole closed beta program of the site, we ran that on DreamHost at the time because we thought you know what we haven’t launched yet, it’s probably not that important uptime and so forth, we can get away with just some cheap hosting and we’ll think about how we host this thing later. Well, that came back to bite us this week because DreamHost had a massive outage, and this is the second in the last month, and I know I expect a lot of our listeners are hosting, if only personal sites and I know a lot of web developers keep a DreamHost account to do their development on, so they develop live on a DreamHost account that only they know the address to, and then when they’re happy with the results they move it over to the proper hosting for their clients. And, yeah, just in the past week this is on the DreamHost Status Blog, DreamHost announced with seven hours to go, so in less than seven hours developers on the DreamHost platform had to prepare for an outage window, a maintenance window, you know, you’re used to these things if you’ve got a web host, they announce a maintenance window. But in this case it wasn’t exactly a window, they were just saying at 10:00p.m. Pacific Time on Sunday, March 27th we’re going to do some network maintenance, we’re going to try to minimize the downtime that our customers see, but there may be some spotty performance for users around this time. What that ended up meaning was 50 minutes of complete downtime of the entire DreamHost network, every DreamHost hosted site, including DreamHost.com itself and the panel where you would log in to report support issues, were entirely down; the only thing that was up was this dreamhoststatus.com blog. And this is the long way around back to MySpace, but I mention this because the comment thread for that post about that outage became as you can imagine more and more outraged of people going you said this would just be a little spotty performance that you would minimize, your network’s been down for half an hour, you announced it not as a window but as a specific time, is there any time estimate on this getting done? And it went from outrage into silliness, and if you search that page for the word MySpace you’ll see a virtual argument between fake Steve Ballmer, fake Mark Zuckerberg and fake various heads of Google arguing about which social network is the best, as you could imagine a lot of web developers with too much time on their hands because their sites are down. Yes, Mark Zuckerberg saying “Steve Ballmer if you need any ideas look at MySpace, it worked for me” (laughter). Yeah, they were all there, see, everyone uses DreamHost. 凯文：廉价的共享托管，仅此而已。 是的，当我们需要处理不是关键任务的东西时，SitePoint会维护一个DreamHost帐户，并且在过去一周中，我们意识到我们错误地将博客留给了我们的新网站Learnable.com。 Learnable.com本身，网站，应用程序，从商店到在线课程的所有内容，都托管在现代的Amazon EC2云托管堆栈中，但是博客是在该网站的整个封闭Beta计划期间建立的，我们当时在DreamHost上运行了它，因为我们认为您知道我们还没有启动什么，它可能不是那么重要的正常运行时间，等等，我们可以摆脱一些廉价的托管，然后考虑如何托管此托管事后 好吧，这又回到了本周，因为DreamHost发生了严重的停机，这是我们的重灾区。这是上个月的第二次停机。我知道，如果只有个人站点，而且我知道很多，我希望很多听众都在托管Web开发人员保留DreamHost帐户进行开发，因此他们仅在DreamHost帐户上进行开发，该帐户只有他们知道地址，然后对结果感到满意后，便将其移至适合其客户的托管位置。 而且，是的，就在过去一周，这是在DreamHost状态博客上，DreamHost宣布还有七个小时的工作时间，因此，在不到七个小时的时间内，DreamHost平台上的开发人员就必须为停机窗口，维护窗口做准备，如果您有网络托管服务商，他们就会习惯这些事情，他们会宣布维护窗口。 但是在这种情况下，这并不是一个完全的窗口，他们只是在晚上10:00说。 在3月27 日(星期日)的太平洋时间，我们将进行一些网络维护，我们将尽量减少客户看到的停机时间，但是这段时间用户可能会发现性能参差不齐。 最终的含义是整个DreamHost网络完全停机了50分钟，每个DreamHost托管站点(包括DreamHost.com本身以及用于登录以报告支持问题的面板)都完全崩溃了； 唯一发生的是这个dreamhoststatus.com博客。 这是回到MySpace的漫长过程，但是我之所以提及这一点，是因为您可以想象越来越多的人发怒了，该帖子有关该中断的评论线程变得越来越多，您说这将是您的一点点表现。最小化，您的网络已经关闭了半个小时，您不是作为一个窗口而是在一个特定的时间宣布它，是否有任何时间估计可以完成？ 然后，它从暴行变成了愚蠢，如果您在该页面上搜索MySpace一词，就会在假冒的史蒂夫·鲍尔默，假冒的马克·扎克伯格和假冒的Google负责人之间争论不休。可以想象很多Web开发人员的时间太长，因为他们的网站已经关闭。 是的，马克·扎克伯格(Mark Zuckerberg)说：“史蒂夫·鲍尔默(Steve Ballmer)，如果您需要了解MySpace，它对我有用。”(笑声)。 是的，他们都在那里，大家都使用DreamHost。 Stephan: We could solve the world’s issues with DreamHost. 斯蒂芬：我们可以用DreamHost解决世界的问题。 Kevin: Next story guys? 凯文：接下来的家伙？ Stephan: So, probably some of the geeks out there know that MySQL.com and Sun.com were hacked just recently, just a couple days ago. 斯蒂芬：所以，可能有些极客知道MySQL.com和Sun.com是在几天前才被黑客入侵的。 Kevin: I’m embarrassed to admit that this slipped under my radar; I think I was too busy following the DreamHost comment thread. 凯文：我很尴尬地承认这已经在我的视线范围内了。 我想我在DreamHost评论线程之后太忙了。 Stephan: (Laughs) well, InfoWorld has a pretty good analysis of what happened and they linked to some of the hacker conversations, so it’s fairly interesting because it was just a blind SQL injection, so basically a web form that they left open to the customer facing side that they didn’t have any kind of checks on, and they got access to all of the client information for MySQL.com. 斯蒂芬：(笑)好吧，InfoWorld对发生的事情进行了很好的分析，并且将它们与一些黑客对话进行了链接，因此这很有趣，因为它只是盲目SQL注入，因此基本上是一个Web表单，因此他们对面向客户的一方，他们没有进行任何检查，因此可以访问MySQL.com的所有客户端信息。 Kevin: Zowie, so that’s all the commercial customers who have MySQL support contracts and stuff like that I suppose. 凯文：祖维，所以所有拥有MySQL支持合同和我想像的东西的商业客户。 Stephan: Exactly. And so some of the people — and they got some of the MySQL employees’ usernames and ID’s and some of these people had like username Admin passwords of like four digits, so coming from the database company that’s supposed to know databases it’s kind of sad. 史蒂芬：是的 。 这样的人-他们得到了一些MySQL员工的用户名和ID，其中一些人的用户名Admin密码像四位数一样，因此来自应该知道数据库的数据库公司，这让人感到很难过。 Brad: Yeah, I was going to say we’ve got to see a graph of most commonly used passwords, I think we saw that a few shows ago when we were talking about that website that was hacked. 布拉德：是的，我要说的是，我们必须看到一个最常用的密码图表，我想我们在谈论被黑客入侵的网站时看到了一些节目。 Stephan: So apparently Sun.com was hacked as well, but they don’t know if it was the same injection method or what kind of information was gained access to, but it’s kind of, I don’t know, when a big-faluting company like Sun or I guess that’s Oracle now has these type of issues you think — 史蒂芬：所以显然Sun.com也遭到了黑客攻击，但他们不知道这是否是相同的注入方法或获得了什么样的信息，但是我不知道什么时候有大量的像Sun之类的有缺陷的公司，或者我想Oracle现在遇到了您认为的这类问题- Brad: You’d think they’d know a thing or two about database protection. 布拉德：您可能会认为他们对数据库保护了解一两件事。 Stephan: You’d think, right? 斯蒂芬：你会认为，对吗？ Kevin: So what is the actual, you know, the root cause here, because you see MySQL.com down you immediately leap to MySQL itself doesn’t know how to run a secure database. And the fact that there were passwords there available to be grabbed in plain text, part of that is a database design issue, but most of this it sounds like is a server-side coding issue. 凯文：这是真正的根本原因，因为您发现MySQL.com崩溃后，您立即跳到MySQL本身并不知道如何运行安全的数据库。 而且存在可以用纯文本形式获取密码的事实，部分原因是数据库设计问题，但这听起来像是服务器端编码问题。 Stephan: Yeah, it’s a web developer issue; I don’t think it was a database issue at all. 斯蒂芬：是的，这是一个网络开发人员的问题。 我认为这根本不是数据库问题。 Kevin: Yeah, it’s nothing to do with the MySQL database itself, if you’re using MySQL on your website I don’t think you need to worry that the creators don’t know anything about security, your security that needs to protect you against this kind of stuff happens at the level of the PHP code you’re writing or the Ruby code you’re writing or whatever language you have between your web server and that database. 凯文：是的，这与MySQL数据库本身无关，如果您在网站上使用MySQL，我认为您不必担心创建者对安全性一无所知，而您的安全性却需要保护您在您正在编写PHP代码或您正在编写的Ruby代码或Web服务器与该数据库之间使用的任何语言的级别上发生这种情况是相对的。 Brad: Gotta sanitize. 布拉德：一定要消毒。 Kevin: Exactly. 凯文：是的 。 Brad: Lucky little Bobby Tables didn’t show up (laughter). 布拉德：幸运的小鲍比桌子没有露面(笑)。 Kevin: Yeah. 凯文：是的。 Stephan: I mean a lot of this stuff comes from when you write your queries or you leave your fields, you leave your input fields without being sanitized like Brad said, it’s like just little things that you would never think of if you weren’t a developer. I guess people that aren’t web developers, or maybe they’re designers, they don’t understand that there’s easy ways to inject things or select things from SQL if this stuff isn’t cleaned up, so. 斯蒂芬：我的意思是，很多东西来自于您编写查询或离开字段，离开输入字段而没有像布拉德所说的那样被清理的情况，就像只是您不会想到的小事情开发人员。 我猜不是Web开发人员的人，或者也许是设计师的人，他们不了解如果不清理这些内容，有简单的方法可以注入或从SQL中选择内容，因此。 Kevin: I want to kind of — maybe I’m being to generous here because I like MySQL and I used to be a Java developer so I have a soft spot for Sun as well, but I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that these sites, Sun.com and MySQL.com, these are sites that have been around since the dawn of server-side scripting, and I expect that these exploits were as a result of really old code written in really old PHP; I’m hoping this isn’t something that was written recently. 凯文：我想有点—也许我在这里很慷慨，因为我喜欢MySQL并且我曾经是Java开发人员，所以我也对Sun情有独钟，但是我想给他们带来疑问的好处并说这些网站(Sun.com和MySQL.com)是服务器端脚本创建之初就存在的网站，我希望这些漏洞是由于使用非常老PHP编写了非常老的代码所致； 我希望这不是最近写的东西。 Stephan: Yeah, I mean I know I’m pretty sure I have code that’s from 2004 or something that I wrote that probably is not secure, so I should probably go back, this should be a wake up call. 斯蒂芬：是的，我的意思是我知道我确定我有2004年以来的代码或我写的代码可能不安全，所以我应该回去，这应该是一个警钟。 Kevin: Don’t be creepy, don’t be creepy (laughs). 凯文：不要毛骨悚然，不要毛骨悚然(笑)。 Stephan: This should be a wake up call to people, go back and look at your old code, especially if the site’s still in use, take a look at your code and see what you’re doing and maybe clean it up a bit. 史蒂芬(Stephan)：这应该是对人们的警钟，回去看看您的旧代码，尤其是如果该站点仍在使用中，请查看您的代码，看看您在做什么，甚至还可以对其进行清理。 Kevin: Yes, but I don’t think any one of us is MySQL.com to be fair. 凯文：是的，但是我认为我们每个人都不是MySQL.com。 Stephan: No, not at all. 斯蒂芬：不，一点也不。 Kevin: But I guess when you’re busy being acquired by Oracle and stuff like that maybe code security isn’t the top thing on your mind, this is possibly a symptom of the fact that MySQL as a company and Sun as a company, they aren’t the darlings of the tech world they used to be, they don’t have the money to spend on security audits and just maintaining old code, for example; I expect they’re very much in a let’s pinch pennies where we can sort of mode at the moment. I’m not hearing a lot of sympathy so I’m guessing there’s no excuse for this kind of thing. 凯文：但是我想，当您正忙于被Oracle收购时，诸如代码安全之类的东西并不是您的首要考虑，这可能是一个事实，即MySQL作为公司，Sun作为公司，他们不再是过去的技术世界的宠儿，例如，他们没有钱花在安全审计和仅维护旧代码上； 我希望它们非常有用，我们现在可以在其中进行一些排序。 我没有听到太多同情，所以我猜这种事情没有任何借口。 Patrick: No, I think you’re being fair. Even if they have unlimited resources, you get a big enough website it just has to be one thing that’s off by a little bit to have something happen. 帕特里克：不，我认为你很公平。 即使他们拥有无限的资源，您也可以拥有一个足够大的网站，但这仅仅是一件事情要做的事情而已。 Brad: I would expect some type of QA process to inspect that stuff, if you’re pushing up new forms or whatever there should be, I’m assuming there probably is, certain levels that people have to signoff on and test and verify before it goes live. 布拉德：我希望某种类型的质量检查流程能够检查这些内容，如果您要推销新表格或应有的表格，我假设可能存在某些级别的人员，他们必须在签字之前进行测试和验证它上线了。 Kevin: Yeah, I wonder if this is old code, I wonder if it just never made it through their current processes for security auditing. 凯文：是的，我想知道这是否是旧代码，我想知道它是否从未通过其当前的安全审核流程来实现。 Stephan: Or the guy fell asleep like the air traffic controller at Washington National Airport, it could be that. 斯蒂芬：或者那个家伙像华盛顿国家机场的空中交通管制员那样睡着了，可能就是这样。 Kevin: On a slightly related story, I think this is a good time to bring up my story which is a blog post by Brent Simmons, the author of NetNewsWire RSS Reader for the Mac; it used to be my favorite one for the Mac. As I’ve mentioned before on this show I’m currently using Reeder these days, but NetNewsWire is still an excellent piece of software for the Mac, and his blog post is a plea for baked weblogs. And I suppose as the author of an RSS reader app he is especially sensitive to performance issues with blogs, so sites that suddenly get a lot of traffic, you know Brad, I don’t need to tell you that out of the box WordPress does not perform very well under heavy load. What’s your recommendation for the best WordPress plugin to solve that these days? 凯文(Kevin)：在一个稍微相关的故事中，我认为现在是提出我的故事的好时机，这是Brent Simmons的博客文章，Brent Simmons是Mac的NetNewsWire RSS Reader的作者。 它曾经是Mac上我最喜欢的版本。 就像我之前在这个节目中提到的那样，这些天我目前正在使用Reeder，但是NetNewsWire仍然是Mac上非常出色的软件，他的博客文章很喜欢烘焙的Weblog。 我想作为RSS阅读器应用程序的作者，他对博客的性能问题特别敏感，因此突然出现大量访问量的网站，您知道Brad，我不需要告诉您WordPress确实可以在重负载下表现不佳。 您对当今最好的WordPress插件有何建议？ Brad: Caching. I mean a lot of people don’t really think about it until it’s too late, you’ve got to set up good caching at the server level and at your website, you want to cache WordPress, like he mentions in the article, WP Super Cache, there’s W3 Total Cache, there are plugins out there to do it, but also on the server-side you want to look at Memcache, APC, things like that, there are a lot of things you can put in place, and this is probably one of the most common things we do when working with WordPress is optimize, because so many people start getting a lot of traffic and they don’t know what to do because their site really slows down if you get any decent amount of traffic, and that’s where caching comes into play. 布拉德：缓存。 我的意思是，很多人直到来不及了才真正考虑它，您必须在服务器级别和网站上设置良好的缓存，您想要缓存WordPress，就像他在WP文章中提到的那样超级缓存，有W3 Total Cache，有很多插件可以做到这一点，但是在服务器端，您还需要查看Memcache，APC之类的东西，有很多东西可以使用，并且这可能是我们在使用WordPress进行优化时最常做的事情之一，因为如此多的人开始获得大量流量，他们不知道该怎么办，因为如果您获得相当数量的访问量，他们的网站确实会减速流量，这就是缓存起作用的地方。 Kevin: Right. So this blog is suggesting a technique that I had in one of the very last chapters of my book, Build Your Own Database Driven Website Using PHP and MySQL, the very first edition of that one of the quote/unquote advanced techniques at the end was generating static pages from your dynamic PHP code. And at the time I said it’s easy to write a PHP page that does what you want, it’s a lot harder to write a PHP page that does what you want efficiently and quickly, and rather than try and solve all the performance problems with your code why not ask yourself do I really need to be generating these pages of my site dynamically on the fly in response to browser requests. Or maybe can I get away with static snapshots of those pages, could I make it so that whenever I change some content in the content management system of my site that triggers this heavy process that regenerates all of the static pages of my site and so that the pages that the browsers are actually landing on are just plain HTML files, the same way we’ve built web pages since 1991 or whenever it is you got started on the Web. So this is a new call for this old technique, and he points out software like WordPress that goes really out of its way, it requires you, like you say, Brad, to have a lot of server knowhow and know which plugins to install to get acceptable performance under load for your site, so why not do away with that server-side stuff that is running in response to every page request? What’s your reaction to this, Brad, do you think this could fly? 凯文：对。 因此，本博客建议我在本书的最后一章中介绍的一种技术，即使用PHP和MySQL建立自己的数据库驱动的网站 ，最后，其中一个引用/未引用高级技术的第一版是从动态PHP代码生成静态页面。 在我说的时候，编写一个可以满足您需求PHP页面很容易，而编写一个可以高效且快速地满足您想要PHP页面要困难得多，而不是尝试解决代码中的所有性能问题为什么不问自己，我是否真的需要根据浏览器的请求动态地动态生成网站的这些页面。 或者，也许我可以摆脱那些页面的静态快照，是否可以做到这一点，以便每当我更改网站内容管理系统中的某些内容时，都会触发繁重的过程来重新生成网站的所有静态页面，从而浏览器实际到达的页面只是纯HTML文件，这与我们自1991年以来或无论何时开始在Web上构建网页的方式相同。 因此，这是对这项旧技术的新呼唤，他指出WordPress之类的软件确实过时了，它要求您(如您所说的Brad)拥有大量服务器专业知识，并知道要安装到哪个插件在您的网站负载下获得可接受的性能，那么为什么不删除响应每个页面请求而运行的服务器端内容呢？ 您对此有何React，布拉德，您认为这可能会实现吗？ Brad: Yeah. I love it. I think it would solve a lot of problems and make things much easier, but you are going to run into issues, we’ve had this problem too where if you’re caching pages what if you want like a Twitter widget or your latest Twitter status on your website, if you’re caching you’re going to have maybe the last, you know, every 24 hours it’s going to update, or whatever it may be, so these are problems that you have to figure out ways around it. If you need it to be fresh like a Twitter update or something that’s going to happen multiple times throughout the day caching things like this is not going to work. 布拉德：是的 我喜欢它。 我认为这可以解决很多问题并使事情变得更容易，但是您将遇到问题，我们也遇到了这个问题，如果您要缓存页面，那么您想要的是Twitter小部件还是最新的Twitter网站上的状态，如果您要缓存，那么每隔24小时就要更新一次，或者可能是最新的一次，所以这些都是问题，您必须找出解决方法。 如果您需要像Twitter更新这样的新鲜事物，或者一整天将要发生多次的事情，那么像这样的事情将无法正常工作。 Kevin: Well, I think one of the things that can serve to help us here is the way browsers are getting better and better at supporting JavaScript communication between websites. So this dynamic rendering of pages in response to every request may turn out to be I think a blip in web history because before in the 90’s you built your webpage and it had hyperlinks on it to web pages and it didn’t have to be any more complicated than that. Somewhere around 2001 the first glimmers of Web 2.0 happened and we very quickly started to want as developers to draw on the resources of other websites, like you say, Brad, I want to show my Twitter status on my blog’s homepage for example. And because browsers would not let code running on my site talk to the Twitter website for security reasons this had to happen server-side, so my web server had to ask Twitter for my status and then bring it back and then dynamically render a page. But I think that may not be as necessary as it once was because browsers are standardizing around cross domain security policies, so now I could build my blog’s homepage using static HTML and just put a bit of JavaScript in it that would go and in the visitor’s browser connect to Twitter, get my current status and put that into that part of the page on the fly, I think it could really work. 凯文：嗯，我认为可以为我们提供帮助的一件事是，浏览器在支持网站之间JavaScript通信方面越来越好。 因此，这种响应每个请求的动态呈现页面可能是我认为是网络历史记录中的一个亮点，因为在90年代之前，您建立了自己的网页，并在其上建立了指向网页的超链接，而不必是比这更复杂。 大约在2001年某个时候，Web 2.0出现了第一波微光，我们很快就开始希望开发人员能够利用其他网站的资源，例如您所说的布拉德(Brad)，例如，我想在我的博客主页上显示我的Twitter状态。 而且由于安全原因，浏览器不允许在我的网站上运行的代码与Twitter网站进行通信，因此这必须在服务器端进行，因此我的Web服务器必须向Twitter询问我的状态，然后再返回它，然后动态呈现页面。 但是我认为这可能不再像以前那样必要，因为浏览器围绕跨域安全策略进行了标准化，因此现在我可以使用静态HTML构建博客的主页，并在其中添加一些JavaScript，以供访问者使用浏览器连接到Twitter，获取我的当前状态并将其动态添加到页面的该部分中，我认为它确实可以工作。 Stephan: I have two things to say. The first is I saw this technique used by someone I respect and I think he’s a cool guy, his name is Paul Stamatiou, he goes by Stammy and he has a website, and he uses a Ruby script called Jekyll on his website now and it generates static HTML files and he has a very nice long post on why he did this and how he did it and how pleased he is with it. So I think it’s really interesting, I think it’s a good idea, I think especially if you’re getting a lot of hits or you expect to get a lot of hits, the static files make a lot of sense because there’s no database calls, there’s no interruption of service unless your server just can’t handle it. So I really like that. The thing I don’t really like is that this isn’t something that could be done for say clients, I don’t think in an easy manner, unless there was a desktop application that really was a good word editor because what the blog post you posted, Kevin, says is that he’s using — if you go and click on his link how he does it, he’s using Textile or Markup in his post to get the look he wants, and I don’t think most people who are publishing, Brad, now you can correct me, most people who are publishing who are not techies know Textile or want to learn a new markup language to simply write a post. So I think that’s one downside I see, but if there was a text editor out there that converted bolding or things like that, if it converted it into Textile I say go for it, I think that it would be a great thing to have. 史蒂芬：我有两件事要说。 首先，我看到一位尊敬的人使用了此技术，我认为他是一个很酷的人，他的名字叫Paul Stamatiou，他走过Stammy并拥有一个网站，并且现在在他的网站上使用名为Jekyll的Ruby脚本，生成静态HTML文件，他有一篇很不错的长篇文章，介绍了为什么这样做，如何做以及对它的满意程度。 所以我认为这真的很有趣，我认为这是一个好主意，尤其是如果您遇到了很多热门事件或希望获得很多热门事件，那么静态文件就很有意义了，因为没有数据库调用，除非您的服务器无法处理，否则服务不会中断。 所以我真的很喜欢。 我真正不喜欢的事情是，这对于说客户来说是无法做到的，我不认为这很容易，除非有一个桌面应用程序确实是一个很好的单词编辑器，因为博客您发布的帖子，凯文(Kevin)说的是，他正在使用-如果您单击链接以查看其操作方式，他在帖子中使用的是Textile或Markup，以获得他想要的外观，我认为大多数人发布，布拉德(Brad)，现在您可以纠正我，大多数非技术人员的发布者都知道Textile或想学习一种新的标记语言来简单地撰写帖子。 因此，我认为这是一个缺点，但是如果那里有一个文本编辑器可以将粗体或类似的东西转换，如果我将其转换为Textile，那么我认为这是一件很了不起的事情。 Kevin: Well, I would love to see a WordPress plugin, for example, that you still installed the WordPress software on your site, you still use the whole WordPress WYSIWYG editor and all of that to edit your content, but what the plugin did was maintain in response to all your edits a static version of your site’s content and then hid away the dynamic version, and so what you pointed your traffic at was that static version but you were still using the WordPress content management system to manage and edit your content. 凯文：好吧，我很想看到一个WordPress插件，例如，您仍在站点上安装了WordPress软件，仍然使用了整个WordPress所见即所得编辑器，所有这些都可以编辑您的内容，但是该插件的作用是维护所有内容的静态版本，然后隐藏动态版本，以使您的访问量指向该静态版本，但您仍在使用WordPress内容管理系统来管理和编辑内容。 Brad: Well, I mean that’s kind of what the caching plugins are doing, I mean they’re basically making static files on your server for each page or post or whatever you have for your whole site, and then if you go to update it, it wipes out the cache and recreates it, I don’t think it’s really enough. 布拉德：嗯，我的意思是，这就是缓存插件的作用，我的意思是说，它们基本上是在服务器上为每个页面或每个页面或整个网站上的任何内容制作静态文件，然后如果要更新的话，它会清除缓存并重新创建它，我认为这还不够。 Kevin: Yeah, true enough. 凯文：是的，确实如此。 Brad: They’re not perfect by any means but it’s better than nothing, and that’s a tip I give a lot of people, like don’t wait until you get Fireballed or Dugg or Slashdotted, there’s nothing harder to do than set up caching when your site is getting slammed with traffic, it’s nearly impossible, and at that point it’s too late, you need to think about it before it happens, get something set up, anything is better than nothing, and that way if it happens you’re ready for it. 布拉德：它们无论如何都不是完美的，但总比没有强。这是我给很多人的提示，例如不要等到被Fireballed，Dugg或Slashdot取代后，设置缓存就没有比这更困难的了当您的网站被流量猛烈撞击时，这几乎是不可能的，到那时为时已晚，您需要在它发生之前进行思考，进行设置，任何事情总比没有好，如果这种情况发生，您会重新准备。 Kevin: With all the great changes that have made to WordPress lately I’m surprised they haven’t bundled in caching as a part of the core yet. 凯文：最近对WordPress进行了所有重大更改，令我感到惊讶的是，它们还没有捆绑到缓存中作为核心的一部分。 Brad: Yeah, that’s a discussion that I’ve seen crop up quite a bit, and I think the general consensus is it would essentially be over most people’s heads and most people wouldn’t use it. 布拉德：是的，这是我已经看到的很多讨论了，我认为普遍的共识是，这基本上将超过大多数人的头脑，并且大多数人不会使用它。 Kevin: Wow, really? 凯文：哇，真的吗？ Brad: Yeah. I don’t know if it’s — that could always change. 布拉德：是的 我不知道这是不是总是可以改变的。 Patrick: In the post, in the blog post you mentioned, Kevin, there’s a link to being Fireballed where it’s at blog.23x.net, and that’s kind of where the inspiration for the post came from was this guy had tons of traffic all of a sudden, his server didn’t really handle it. Now there’s a question in the comment thread, someone asked out, “Why is WordPress by itself so inefficient at caching pages,” and Mark Jaquith, and Brad that’s like a WordPress core developer, right, Mark Jaquith? 帕特里克(Patrick)：在您提到的博客文章中，凯文(Kevin)有一个链接，指向Blog.23x.net上的火球，这正是该帖子的灵感源于此人的大量流量突然之间，他的服务器并没有真正处理它。 现在，评论线程中有一个问题，有人问：“为什么WordPress本身在缓存页面方面如此低效？”，Mark Jaquith和Brad就像WordPress核心开发人员一样，对吗，Mark Jaquith？ Brad: Yeah, he’s one of the lead devs. 布拉德：是的，他是主要开发人员之一。 Patrick: Okay. He answered the question and he said, “WordPress is like that because it has to run on the least common denominator/APC x-cache or even a file system, someone mentioned some hosts don’t want you to use WP Super Cache probably because they have a distributed file system and all those file rights can go and mess things up, so I guess that’s kind of the general idea, and this is kind of an old comment, December 2009, but he mentions canonical plugins as well and plugins that are featured within WordPress, stay up-to-date and that it might be a plugin in that area. Has that happened, Brad? 帕特里克：好的。 他回答了这个问题，并说：“ WordPress之所以这样，是因为它必须运行在最小公分母/ APC x-cache或什至文件系统上，有人提到某些主机不希望您使用WP Super Cache。他们有一个分布式文件系统，所有这些文件权限都可能使事情变得混乱，所以我想这是一个普遍的想法，这有点陈词滥调，2009年12月，但他还提到了规范性插件和是WordPress中的精选功能，请保持最新状态，并且它可能是该领域的插件。 发生了这种事吗，布拉德？ Brad: No, it hasn’t. In fact, they were working on canonical plugins and I don’t think any have been released as far as I know, I could be wrong on that, but there certainly isn’t a caching one that I’ve seen. 布拉德：不，不是。 实际上，他们正在开发规范的插件，据我所知，我认为还没有发布任何插件，对此我可能是错的，但是我所见当然没有缓存的插件。 Kevin: That’s a really interesting point, though, the need to run on the least common denominator, and that’s kind of a by-product of WordPress being built on PHP; PHP is known and its greatest strength is that it’s available everywhere, you can run it everywhere, and so if you’re going to build something like WordPress, a flagship piece of PHP software, you really do have to be very forgiving in what the environment is and, yeah, I supposed bundling in caching plugins that won’t work on all PHP configurations, or that might work on some where the host doesn’t want you to and just installing WordPress will get you banned by your web host as a result, it’s not really an option. I guess this is an argument for services like Page.ly that provide hosting tailored for WordPress, so it doesn’t just give you PHP hosting, it gives you PHP hosting with all of the bells and whistles that WordPress thrives on and in fact sets you up probably I would be very surprised if the Page.ly’s default WordPress installation didn’t have a caching plugin enabled on it, I’m sure it does. 凯文：不过，这是一个非常有趣的观点，需要在最小公分母上运行，这是基于PHP构建的WordPress的副产品。 PHP是众所周知的，它的最大优势是它随处可见，可以在任何地方运行，因此，如果要构建类似WordPress的旗舰软件PHP之类的东西，您确实必须非常宽容。是的，是的，我认为环境捆绑在不能在所有PHP配置中都起作用的缓存插件中，或者可能在某些主机不希望您使用的缓存插件中起作用，而仅安装WordPress会使您被网络主机禁止结果，这不是一个真正的选择。 我想这是诸如Page.ly之类的服务的一个论点，该服务提供了针对WordPress量身定制的托管服务，因此它不仅为您提供PHP托管服务，它还为您提供了PHP托管服务以及WordPress蓬勃发展的事实如果Page.ly的默认WordPress安装未启用缓存插件，您肯定会感到非常惊讶，我敢肯定。 Brad: Yeah, it does, it ships with WP Super Cache right out of the box. 布拉德：是的，它确实是WP Super Cache随附的包装。 Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Alright, well, I know there’re probably one or two aficionados of Movable Type in the audience going “but Movable Type has always done this!” Movable Type is, we’ve spoken about it recently as the loser in the Movable Type versus WordPress war, but one of the things that Movable Type has always done has provided you the option to run in this “render to static” mode, and it’s interesting that I guess WordPress would have seen that feature in their rival and decided, ah, no, we don’t need that. Anyway, interesting food for thought, I’d love to see someone come out with a brand new blogging platform that was really focused around this idea of rendering to static; I think if you architect it from scratch to that you could probably build something pretty interesting these days. 凯文：是的，确实如此。 好吧，我知道观众中可能会有一到两个Movable Type的狂热者，但“ Movable Type总是这样做！” Movable Type是我们最近所说的Movable Type与WordPress之战的失败者，但是Movable Type一直做的一件事是为您提供了在“渲染为静态”模式下运行的选项，并且有趣的是，我猜WordPress将在其竞争对手中看到该功能并决定，嗯，不，我们不需要那个。 无论如何，有趣的事情引起了我的思考，我很乐意看到有人提出了一个全新的博客平台，该平台实际上专注于这种渲染为静态的想法。 我认为，如果您从头开始构建它，那么现在可能会构建一些非常有趣的东西。 Patrick: There you go, Kevin, that’s your next project. 帕特里克：凯文，你去了，这是你的下一个项目。 Kevin: (Laughter) what have you got for us, Patrick? 凯文：(笑声)帕特里克，您给我们带来了什么？ Patrick: You may have heard that Amazon launched its Appstore for the Android platform recently last week, and Apple immediately filed a lawsuit targeted at the Appstore over the Appstore name, so if you’re thinking about developing anything that’s called an Appstore you may want to rethink that at least until this litigation works its way through the system. Basically Apple feels that Amazon is improperly using the app store mark in conjunction with a new mobile software store and developer web program and that consumers will be confused by their use of the mark and think that it is sponsored or approved by Apple. Apple has actually filed a trademark application for the name App Store which has been challenged by Microsoft who feel that the term is too blah, is too generic I should say, and that’s currently pending and will be reviewed by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board, according to the IPlawblog.com most of Apple’s trademark infringement claims will rest on the proof that consumers are generally confused by Amazon and expect to receive products from Apple. So, what do you guys think, are you developing any App Stores? 帕特里克(Patrick)：您可能听说过亚马逊上周刚刚为Android平台启动了其Appstore，苹果立即以Appstore的名称针对Appstore提起诉讼，因此，如果您正在考虑开发任何称为Appstore的产品，重新思考一下，至少要等到诉讼通过系统解决为止。 基本上，苹果公司认为亚马逊不正确地将应用程序商店商标与新的移动软件商店和开发人员网络程序结合使用，消费者对商标的使用会感到困惑，并认为它是由苹果公司赞助或批准的。 Apple has actually filed a trademark application for the name App Store which has been challenged by Microsoft who feel that the term is too blah, is too generic I should say, and that's currently pending and will be reviewed by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board, according to the IPlawblog.com most of Apple's trademark infringement claims will rest on the proof that consumers are generally confused by Amazon and expect to receive products from Apple. So, what do you guys think, are you developing any App Stores? Kevin: (Laughs) no App Stores going on here. There is the Google Web App Store though, isn’t there? Kevin: (Laughs) no App Stores going on here. There is the Google Web App Store though, isn't there? Patrick: Right. Do they call it Web App Store? Chrome Web Store, that’s what they call it. 帕特里克：对。 Do they call it Web App Store? Chrome Web Store, that's what they call it. Kevin: Ahhh, so they took the name ‘App’ out. Kevin: Ahhh, so they took the name 'App' out. Patrick: And that’s part of Apple’s filing is actually they say in the filing that other companies in the industry have offered a variety of downloadable ringtones and games but that such companies brand their services with a variety of terms that bore no similarity to the term App Store, and that’s also according to the IPlawblog.com, it’s really straight up the use of the word App Store that bothers Apple. Patrick: And that's part of Apple's filing is actually they say in the filing that other companies in the industry have offered a variety of downloadable ringtones and games but that such companies brand their services with a variety of terms that bore no similarity to the term App Store, and that's also according to the IPlawblog.com, it's really straight up the use of the word App Store that bothers Apple. Kevin: So what’s entirely different for me, because I’m a nitpicker by nature and frequently edit text, what stands out for me like a sore thumb is that Amazon calls their thing Appstore and Apple calls it App Store, and there’s a space in there whereas Amazon uses one word Appstore is one word for Amazon whereas with Apple it’s two words, and that’s night and day for me, there’s no confusion at all (laughs). Kevin: So what's entirely different for me, because I'm a nitpicker by nature and frequently edit text, what stands out for me like a sore thumb is that Amazon calls their thing Appstore and Apple calls it App Store, and there's a space in there whereas Amazon uses one word Appstore is one word for Amazon whereas with Apple it's two words, and that's night and day for me, there's no confusion at all (laughs). Brad: Microsoft’s going to use an underscore. Brad: Microsoft's going to use an underscore. Kevin: Can you think of any reason why Amazon would have chosen that one-word spelling if not to avoid litigation by Apple, because it seems so awkward. Kevin: Can you think of any reason why Amazon would have chosen that one-word spelling if not to avoid litigation by Apple, because it seems so awkward. Patrick: That’s a good question. I can’t really think of a reason unless they have some sort of internal — I don’t even want to — I don’t know, I don’t know, like internal branding of how they view the word necessarily and they think well this should be one word, I don’t know, but yeah I think you make a good point that that might’ve been their intention, I don’t know if that was intention that really made a lot of sense, and I’m not surprised Apple’s filing a suit over this even though the trademark itself is obviously pending. 帕特里克：这是一个很好的问题。 I can't really think of a reason unless they have some sort of internal — I don't even want to — I don't know, I don't know, like internal branding of how they view the word necessarily and they think well this should be one word, I don't know, but yeah I think you make a good point that that might've been their intention, I don't know if that was intention that really made a lot of sense, and I'm not surprised Apple's filing a suit over this even though the trademark itself is obviously pending. Kevin: Well, they were talking about this on MacBreak Weekly, the MacBreak Weekly Podcast last week over on the Twit Network, and they made the very good point that you can’t really fault Apple for filing litigation here because Apple is forced to defend its trademarks, that’s the way trademarks work, if they want to have any kind of ownership over the name App Store then they are forced to defend it any time something like this happens. So whether Amazon is vindicated or is forced to change their name here, the outcome doesn’t really matter so much as the fact that Apple stepped up to the plate and said we own this name App Store and we’re going to defend it. Now the courts may decide the one-word spelling is different enough or the fact that it’s Amazon’s Appstore for Android devices makes it different enough that there’s no confusion, and then Apple will have to go home empty-handed, but they will still own that trademark because they stepped up to the plate to defend it; if they didn’t show up the next people who came along who named their thing App Store with two words could just go, well, Amazon did it and you didn’t take them to court so your trademark is invalid, and that’s what Apple is probably most hoping to avoid at this point is a precedent. Kevin: Well, they were talking about this on MacBreak Weekly, the MacBreak Weekly Podcast last week over on the Twit Network, and they made the very good point that you can't really fault Apple for filing litigation here because Apple is forced to defend its trademarks, that's the way trademarks work, if they want to have any kind of ownership over the name App Store then they are forced to defend it any time something like this happens. So whether Amazon is vindicated or is forced to change their name here, the outcome doesn't really matter so much as the fact that Apple stepped up to the plate and said we own this name App Store and we're going to defend it. Now the courts may decide the one-word spelling is different enough or the fact that it's Amazon's Appstore for Android devices makes it different enough that there's no confusion, and then Apple will have to go home empty-handed, but they will still own that trademark because they stepped up to the plate to defend it; if they didn't show up the next people who came along who named their thing App Store with two words could just go, well, Amazon did it and you didn't take them to court so your trademark is invalid, and that's what Apple is probably most hoping to avoid at this point is a precedent. Patrick: They could always license it but they don’t want to do that either I’m sure. Patrick: They could always license it but they don't want to do that either I'm sure. Kevin: Well, yeah, I’d be very surprised to see Amazon pay anything to Apple to license the name; I think they’d probably change the name first. Kevin: Well, yeah, I'd be very surprised to see Amazon pay anything to Apple to license the name; I think they'd probably change the name first. Patrick: Maybe they’d rather jump off the roof. Patrick: Maybe they'd rather jump off the roof. Kevin: It’s not that sexy, they ruined it with the — maybe it’s just me but this one-word spelling looks terrible. I could imagine if no one had ever called anything an App Store before and me marketing guy at Amazon got the brilliant idea that I was — we’re going to create this thing that’s called an App Store but to make it our own we’re going to make up our own new word and call it Appstore! Kevin: It's not that sexy, they ruined it with the — maybe it's just me but this one-word spelling looks terrible. I could imagine if no one had ever called anything an App Store before and me marketing guy at Amazon got the brilliant idea that I was — we're going to create this thing that's called an App Store but to make it our own we're going to make up our own new word and call it Appstore! Patrick: Will you be happy when the AP Stylebook announces in about 27 years that Appstore’s actually one word, will that make you happy? Patrick: Will you be happy when the AP Stylebook announces in about 27 years that Appstore's actually one word, will that make you happy? Kevin: (Laughs) no. No, I’ll take them to court! Kevin: (Laughs) no. No, I'll take them to court! Patrick: Yeah, I don’t know, the term to me seems pretty generic so I don’t know. Patrick: Yeah, I don't know, the term to me seems pretty generic so I don't know. Kevin: It does. Kevin: It does. Patrick: I mean I’ve seen App Store, I’ve seen people use the App Store name obviously not as big as Amazon so that’s why they’re probably not attracting attention, but like I’ve heard of a WordPress App Store, doesn’t that exist somewhere, Brad? Patrick: I mean I've seen App Store, I've seen people use the App Store name obviously not as big as Amazon so that's why they're probably not attracting attention, but like I've heard of a WordPress App Store, doesn't that exist somewhere, Brad? Brad: I’m not familiar with it but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Brad: I'm not familiar with it but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Patrick: Yeah, I’ve seen WPplugins.com says they’re the WordPress App Store. Patrick: Yeah, I've seen WPplugins.com says they're the WordPress App Store. Kevin: Yeah, definitely. Like you see it was probably a misstep on Apple’s part to name it something so generic because they two words are very generic, App, it’s kind of more brand-y than application, but we’ve been saying apps for years, the killer app for this new operating system or this new platform or something like that, so the word app has been in the vocabulary for a long time, store is as generic as it gets if you’re selling stuff. So, yeah, App Store probably not a good move; you look at people like Google who they make up their own word, Google, I mean it was an obscure math term with a different spelling, but they changed the spelling, the pick this word that hopefully meant nothing to the vast majority of people out there, and to this day they continue to try to encourage people to think of Google as their site, their brand, not a generic action, so when you hear people out there saying I’m going to Google you or I’m going to Google that, and it’s clear that they’re not necessarily talking about using the Google trademark search engine to do it, Google gets a little shifty. I wish I had the link in front of me right now, but they did a blog post roughly five years ago now I think where it felt like they were being a little defensive about this very issue where they said let’s all remember that Googling means going to Google.com and typing in a search, it doesn’t mean going to one of our competitors and typing in a search, that’s not Googling at all! But all of this maneuvering is all around — it’s all because of the way trademark law works, specifically in the United States because these are all U.S. companies. 凯文：是的，当然。 Like you see it was probably a misstep on Apple's part to name it something so generic because they two words are very generic, App, it's kind of more brand-y than application, but we've been saying apps for years, the killer app for this new operating system or this new platform or something like that, so the word app has been in the vocabulary for a long time, store is as generic as it gets if you're selling stuff. So, yeah, App Store probably not a good move; you look at people like Google who they make up their own word, Google, I mean it was an obscure math term with a different spelling, but they changed the spelling, the pick this word that hopefully meant nothing to the vast majority of people out there, and to this day they continue to try to encourage people to think of Google as their site, their brand, not a generic action, so when you hear people out there saying I'm going to Google you or I'm going to Google that, and it's clear that they're not necessarily talking about using the Google trademark search engine to do it, Google gets a little shifty. I wish I had the link in front of me right now, but they did a blog post roughly five years ago now I think where it felt like they were being a little defensive about this very issue where they said let's all remember that Googling means going to Google.com and typing in a search, it doesn't mean going to one of our competitors and typing in a search, that's not Googling at all! But all of this maneuvering is all around — it's all because of the way trademark law works, specifically in the United States because these are all US companies. Stephan: Basically Apple doesn’t want App Store to become the new Kleenex. Stephan: Basically Apple doesn't want App Store to become the new Kleenex. Kevin: Yes, exactly. Kevin: Yes, exactly. Stephan: That is what’s happening. Stephan: That is what's happening. Kevin: Yes. 凯文：是的。 Patrick: I don’t know; I kind of think that it’ll fall through, but we’ll see what happens. Maybe it’s not a bad thing that Apple didn’t give it a specific name depending on how they view it. You have the Amazon Kindle, right, because that’s a product and Kindle is a name that has been trademarked so that they own that, whereas with Amazon’s MP3 Store, for example, you have Amazon MP3, so they can’t claim MP3 in this case but they’re still Amazon, so I think that’s the kind of thing we’re looking at here is it’s Apple App Store and I think that’s what Apple’s going to have to accept in the end because they didn’t seek to brand it as a sort of own product within the company like iMac or iPod or iPad, and you know maybe that’s not such a bad thing, maybe it would be less understandable if it were branded as anything other than an application store. Patrick: I don't know; I kind of think that it'll fall through, but we'll see what happens. Maybe it's not a bad thing that Apple didn't give it a specific name depending on how they view it. You have the Amazon Kindle, right, because that's a product and Kindle is a name that has been trademarked so that they own that, whereas with Amazon's MP3 Store, for example, you have Amazon MP3, so they can't claim MP3 in this case but they're still Amazon, so I think that's the kind of thing we're looking at here is it's Apple App Store and I think that's what Apple's going to have to accept in the end because they didn't seek to brand it as a sort of own product within the company like iMac or iPod or iPad, and you know maybe that's not such a bad thing, maybe it would be less understandable if it were branded as anything other than an application store. Stephan: What you’re saying Patrick is its too generic, like the name App Store is just too generic, right? Stephan: What you're saying Patrick is its too generic, like the name App Store is just too generic, right? Patrick: I’m saying the name is maybe generic but also descriptive, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing; if they had tried to brand it as some sort of unique thing I don’t even want to guess, I mean they could’ve maybe tried iStore or something but I don’t know if that would’ve flew, but my point is that by calling App Store they’re being clear about what it is and they will not be able to protect that maybe, but maybe they’ll get more sales because more people understand what the heck it is in the first place. Patrick: I'm saying the name is maybe generic but also descriptive, and that's not necessarily a bad thing; if they had tried to brand it as some sort of unique thing I don't even want to guess, I mean they could've maybe tried iStore or something but I don't know if that would've flew, but my point is that by calling App Store they're being clear about what it is and they will not be able to protect that maybe, but maybe they'll get more sales because more people understand what the heck it is in the first place. Brad: It’s apps, I mean all these phones have apps, if I’m sitting next to one of my buddies that has an Android and another buddy that has a Blackberry I’m going to say, hey, what apps you have installed on there and they’re going to know exactly what I’m talking about whether they call them apps or not; I think it already has turned into that kind of generic label, an app is an app. Brad: It's apps, I mean all these phones have apps, if I'm sitting next to one of my buddies that has an Android and another buddy that has a Blackberry I'm going to say, hey, what apps you have installed on there and they're going to know exactly what I'm talking about whether they call them apps or not; I think it already has turned into that kind of generic label, an app is an app. Stephan: And you’ll get a cease and desist letter from Apple (laughter). Stephan: And you'll get a cease and desist letter from Apple (laughter). Kevin: Alright, you said you had two stories, Patrick, what’s your next one? Kevin: Alright, you said you had two stories, Patrick, what's your next one? Patrick: So my second story is related to Amazon unintentionally but do any of you have an Amazon Kindle or use the Kindle service, I forgot? Patrick: So my second story is related to Amazon unintentionally but do any of you have an Amazon Kindle or use the Kindle service, I forgot? Stephan: I have a Kindle. Stephan: I have a Kindle. Kevin: I have a Kindle that went out of use when I got an iPad and I passed it on to my girlfriend who used it to read one book and now it sits on our bedside table devoid of charge. Kevin: I have a Kindle that went out of use when I got an iPad and I passed it on to my girlfriend who used it to read one book and now it sits on our bedside table devoid of charge. Patrick: So, Stephan, do you take advantage of the lending feature at all? Patrick: So, Stephan, do you take advantage of the lending feature at all? Stephan: Yeah, I’ve used Lendle a little bit. Stephan: Yeah, I've used Lendle a little bit. Patrick: Okay, well then this is right up your alley then. Did you notice when Lendle shut down recently? Patrick: Okay, well then this is right up your alley then. Did you notice when Lendle shut down recently? Stephan: Yeah, it really — when they did it I was in the process of getting a book. Stephan: Yeah, it really — when they did it I was in the process of getting a book. Patrick: Okay, so that’s my story is on March 21st Lendle received an email from Amazon.com saying that they had revoked their API access and that they had done so along with Associates account which is the Amazon affiliate program because Lendle “Did not serve the principle purpose of driving sales on products and services on the Amazon site.” Lendle took exception to this and wrote a blog post about it among other things saying that you can’t borrow if you don’t lend and you can’t lend if you don’t buy. The next day, March 22nd, they received another email from Amazon after trying to reach out to the various addresses they could locate saying that as long as they disabled a particular feature called the Book Sync Tool, which syncs user’s Kindle books with their Lendle account, Amazon would restore their API access as well as their Amazon Associate’s account, Lendle complied and Amazon gave them access to their API again and I guess their app is working and everyone is back to lending books with the service, even you, Stephan, did you get your book? Patrick: Okay, so that's my story is on March 21 st Lendle received an email from Amazon.com saying that they had revoked their API access and that they had done so along with Associates account which is the Amazon affiliate program because Lendle “Did not serve the principle purpose of driving sales on products and services on the Amazon site.” Lendle took exception to this and wrote a blog post about it among other things saying that you can't borrow if you don't lend and you can't lend if you don't buy. The next day, March 22 nd , they received another email from Amazon after trying to reach out to the various addresses they could locate saying that as long as they disabled a particular feature called the Book Sync Tool, which syncs user's Kindle books with their Lendle account, Amazon would restore their API access as well as their Amazon Associate's account, Lendle complied and Amazon gave them access to their API again and I guess their app is working and everyone is back to lending books with the service, even you, Stephan, did you get your book? Stephan: Yeah, I got my book. Stephan: Yeah, I got my book. Brad: So, real quick, for the non-Kindle guy in the room what is Lendle, I don’t know what Lendle is. Brad: So, real quick, for the non-Kindle guy in the room what is Lendle, I don't know what Lendle is. Stephan: I was just going to say it’s a lending service basically, it’s a third party that allows you to lend books because now on the Kindle you can lend between two users and you get that book for I think it’s 14 days when you lend it to someone, and so now rather than you having to go find someone that wants this book or a book you want this service basically does it for you. Stephan: I was just going to say it's a lending service basically, it's a third party that allows you to lend books because now on the Kindle you can lend between two users and you get that book for I think it's 14 days when you lend it to someone, and so now rather than you having to go find someone that wants this book or a book you want this service basically does it for you. Kevin: So it’s like a matchmaking service, I want to read book X, find someone out there who’s willing to lend it to me. Kevin: So it's like a matchmaking service, I want to read book X, find someone out there who's willing to lend it to me. Stephan: Exactly. Stephan: Exactly. Patrick: So it’s kind of like a social network even on top of lending kinda sorta. And you have to be willing to lend in order to receive, is that correct? Patrick: So it's kind of like a social network even on top of lending kinda sorta. And you have to be willing to lend in order to receive, is that correct? Stephan: That is correct, yes, you have to lend to get books. Stephan: That is correct, yes, you have to lend to get books. Kevin: I guess when the lending feature first came out on the Kindle I think a lot of people imagined this sort of application, you know, Amazon goes well, look, we’ve got good news, you buy a Kindle and you can lend, you can temporarily lend any of the books you buy to your family and your friends, and every web API nerd out there goes, ha, ha, family and friends, wait till we open it up to the whole world, no one will have to pay for a book ever again or you’ll have to just buy one, you know, I could see someone buying a book that they don’t even intend to read just because it is the most popular requested book on Lendle right now so that they can lend it out to lots and lots of people and get all the books they actually want to read for free. Kevin: I guess when the lending feature first came out on the Kindle I think a lot of people imagined this sort of application, you know, Amazon goes well, look, we've got good news, you buy a Kindle and you can lend, you can temporarily lend any of the books you buy to your family and your friends, and every web API nerd out there goes, ha, ha, family and friends, wait till we open it up to the whole world, no one will have to pay for a book ever again or you'll have to just buy one, you know, I could see someone buying a book that they don't even intend to read just because it is the most popular requested book on Lendle right now so that they can lend it out to lots and lots of people and get all the books they actually want to read for free. Patrick: But there are restrictions on the program. Patrick: But there are restrictions on the program. Kevin: There’re restrictions? Kevin: There're restrictions? Stephan: I believe you have to lend — you can only lend one book at a time, like you can only receive one and have one out at a time, and then you only have it for 14 days and the person you lend your book to will only have it for 14 days and then it’s automatically returned to your Kindle, and during that time you can’t read the book that you’ve lent out. Stephan: I believe you have to lend — you can only lend one book at a time, like you can only receive one and have one out at a time, and then you only have it for 14 days and the person you lend your book to will only have it for 14 days and then it's automatically returned to your Kindle, and during that time you can't read the book that you've lent out. Kevin: So those are limitations of the Kindle lending feature itself. Kevin: So those are limitations of the Kindle lending feature itself. Stephan: Yeah. 斯蒂芬：是的。 Patrick: And also lending an enabled book can only be lent out once ever, once you lend it out once you cannot lend it out again, that’s according to Lendle. Patrick: And also lending an enabled book can only be lent out once ever, once you lend it out once you cannot lend it out again, that's according to Lendle. Kevin: Really, wow. So that is very like I would say Lendle has gone out of its way not to offend Amazon here. Kevin: Really, wow. So that is very like I would say Lendle has gone out of its way not to offend Amazon here. Patrick: That’s an Amazon restriction too, though, that’s an Amazon restriction on the service, I mean you physically cannot lend a book more than once at all regardless of what an app allows you to do. Patrick: That's an Amazon restriction too, though, that's an Amazon restriction on the service, I mean you physically cannot lend a book more than once at all regardless of what an app allows you to do. Kevin: Wow! See I could see not lending it to the same person more than once because Amazon wants you to have it for 14 days not have time to read it and then have to buy it yourself, but only being able to lend it to anyone once, wow, that’s really, really stingy. Kevin: Wow! See I could see not lending it to the same person more than once because Amazon wants you to have it for 14 days not have time to read it and then have to buy it yourself, but only being able to lend it to anyone once, wow, that's really, really stingy. Stephan: So basically if you’re wanting to lend the book to someone you know you don’t want to put it on the service. Stephan: So basically if you're wanting to lend the book to someone you know you don't want to put it on the service. Kevin: Right, yeah, exactly. Kevin: Right, yeah, exactly. Stephan: Because once someone takes it then you’re not going to be able to ever lend it to someone that you actually want to lend it to. Stephan: Because once someone takes it then you're not going to be able to ever lend it to someone that you actually want to lend it to. Kevin: But even with these restrictions if you are a speedy reader and you can get through a book in 14 days, which I think serious readers who actually use their Kindle probably are, then this is a buy one get one free program for your Kindle, right? Kevin: But even with these restrictions if you are a speedy reader and you can get through a book in 14 days, which I think serious readers who actually use their Kindle probably are, then this is a buy one get one free program for your Kindle, right? Stephan: Basically. Stephan: Basically. Kevin: You buy a book as long as it’s popular enough that someone out there wants to borrow it you’re going to get another book for free to read. Kevin: You buy a book as long as it's popular enough that someone out there wants to borrow it you're going to get another book for free to read. Brad: For 14 days. Brad: For 14 days. Kevin: So, okay, Kindle’s been pretty tight with its limitations here, but nevertheless I think Lendle was doing the right thing, they were abiding by all the restrictions, and Amazon’s reasons for shutting them down seem particularly, I’m looking for a word other than evil, but evil’s the only thing that comes to mind. You can only use our API to, quote, “serve the principle purpose of driving sales of products and services on the Amazon site,” unquote. That’s not the spirit of Web 2.0 here. Kevin: So, okay, Kindle's been pretty tight with its limitations here, but nevertheless I think Lendle was doing the right thing, they were abiding by all the restrictions, and Amazon's reasons for shutting them down seem particularly, I'm looking for a word other than evil, but evil's the only thing that comes to mind. You can only use our API to, quote, “serve the principle purpose of driving sales of products and services on the Amazon site,” unquote. That's not the spirit of Web 2.0 here. Stephan: It seems to me here that it’s counterintuitive to what the service was originally meant to be, right, I mean now it’s turned into this it’s basically here go buy something from Amazon even though we’re not affiliated with Amazon. And, I don’t know, it’s kind of frustrating so I don’t even know if I’m going to still use it. Stephan: It seems to me here that it's counterintuitive to what the service was originally meant to be, right, I mean now it's turned into this it's basically here go buy something from Amazon even though we're not affiliated with Amazon. And, I don't know, it's kind of frustrating so I don't even know if I'm going to still use it. Kevin: Really? Kevin: Really? Stephan: Yeah. 斯蒂芬：是的。 Kevin: Well, yeah, this removal of the book sync feature is particularly weird to me, so correct me if I’m wrong, Stephan, but this book sync feature made it so that any book you bought on your Kindle automatically appeared in your Lendle account. Kevin: Well, yeah, this removal of the book sync feature is particularly weird to me, so correct me if I'm wrong, Stephan, but this book sync feature made it so that any book you bought on your Kindle automatically appeared in your Lendle account. Stephan: Yes, yes. You had to sync it up but it did show up. Stephan: Yes, yes. You had to sync it up but it did show up. Kevin: So you didn’t have to log in to Lendle and say, look, I have The Da Vinci Code available to lend, it would just know it because you had bought that on Amazon, but now Amazon’s saying yeah that’s no good, we need you to take that out, so now Lendle users need to go in and manually add their list of books that they’re making available to lend. Kevin: So you didn't have to log in to Lendle and say, look, I have The Da Vinci Code available to lend, it would just know it because you had bought that on Amazon, but now Amazon's saying yeah that's no good, we need you to take that out, so now Lendle users need to go in and manually add their list of books that they're making available to lend. Stephan: Yep. They pretty much have to go type it in, search for it and then find the books. 斯蒂芬：是的 。 They pretty much have to go type it in, search for it and then find the books. Kevin: So whose interest does this serve? I mean it’s a minor roadblock to people who are actually going to use this service, it’s an annoyance really, so it does not prevent, you know, it doesn’t save anyone at Amazon from anything except it creates friction and annoyance for the users of Lendle, it’s like yeah you can use our API unless you build something good with it in which case we’re going to make you make it crap. Kevin: So whose interest does this serve? I mean it's a minor roadblock to people who are actually going to use this service, it's an annoyance really, so it does not prevent, you know, it doesn't save anyone at Amazon from anything except it creates friction and annoyance for the users of Lendle, it's like yeah you can use our API unless you build something good with it in which case we're going to make you make it crap. Stephan: I mean if you think about it some of these books aren’t even lendable, you can’t lend them out anyway because of publisher has put restrictions on the book. So, I mean it’s kind of — it’s a convoluted system and it’s kind of like now I put my wife’s Kindle under my account so we can share books unlimitedly — unlimitedly, that’s a new word, we can share books back and forth without limit, so if she wants my book I just say send it to hers because we’re on the same account, it doesn’t care how many devices its on. Stephan: I mean if you think about it some of these books aren't even lendable, you can't lend them out anyway because of publisher has put restrictions on the book. So, I mean it's kind of — it's a convoluted system and it's kind of like now I put my wife's Kindle under my account so we can share books unlimitedly — unlimitedly, that's a new word, we can share books back and forth without limit, so if she wants my book I just say send it to hers because we're on the same account, it doesn't care how many devices its on. Kevin: So these features like sharing and stuff, they’re intended to recreate the experience of owning a physical book to some extent in the digital realm, and they’re intended to be there to help people embrace this new format of books that doesn’t require dead trees to work, but every time Amazon makes a change or enforces a rule or something like this that makes these features more difficult to use it just seems like they’re shooting themselves in the foot. What are people going to do, they’re going to go and pirate your books is what they’re going to do, and this is actually related to my spotlight, so maybe it’s a good time for that unless anyone has any other stories let’s dive into host spotlights, guys. Because I was just ranting about my spotlight, my spotlight is a site called dontmakemesteal.com, and this is the Digital Media Consumption Manifesto, and I’m not usually one for manifestos, this is possibly the first thing labeled manifesto that I have thought isn’t completely up itself, but this is a list of five criteria and you can sign a promise on this page. If you come to this page you can say I promise never to illegally download a movie, and you can substitute in TV show or Amazon book here if you like, I promise never to illegally download a digital product if there was legal alternative following the criteria on this page, and then it’s just a list of five things that the authors, the contributing authors to this site, figure are fair and reasonable things to ask of your digital media. First of all, reasonable pricing, so as long as the company trying to sell you this digital movie or digital book or whatever is not gouging you, which means things like rentals should not exceed 1/3 of the price of going to see the thing at the movies, purchases should not exceed the price of going to see it at the movies, all this sort of stuff, these very reasonable sort of requirements for pricing, and there’re similar requirements for things like languages; if they movie has a French subtitle track don’t take it away from me and then try and charge me extra for it or make me buy a separate version of it to get access to it, just put it in there. Similar things for convenience, choice and release dates, and rights, number five, is probably the biggest sticking point for most people trying to sell content online, and this is probably the one that services that otherwise pass all of these tests are probably going to fall down on number five because a lot of places still put DRM. I congratulate Apple, for example, for taking DRM off of all of the songs in the iTunes Music Store, but the reality is they’re still putting DRM on all of their TV shows and movies that they sell which is why it doesn’t satisfy the criteria in this thing. So I’ve signed this manifesto, what do you guys think, is it signing worthy? Kevin: So these features like sharing and stuff, they're intended to recreate the experience of owning a physical book to some extent in the digital realm, and they're intended to be there to help people embrace this new format of books that doesn't require dead trees to work, but every time Amazon makes a change or enforces a rule or something like this that makes these features more difficult to use it just seems like they're shooting themselves in the foot. What are people going to do, they're going to go and pirate your books is what they're going to do, and this is actually related to my spotlight, so maybe it's a good time for that unless anyone has any other stories let's dive into host spotlights, guys. Because I was just ranting about my spotlight, my spotlight is a site called dontmakemesteal.com, and this is the Digital Media Consumption Manifesto, and I'm not usually one for manifestos, this is possibly the first thing labeled manifesto that I have thought isn't completely up itself, but this is a list of five criteria and you can sign a promise on this page. If you come to this page you can say I promise never to illegally download a movie, and you can substitute in TV show or Amazon book here if you like, I promise never to illegally download a digital product if there was legal alternative following the criteria on this page, and then it's just a list of five things that the authors, the contributing authors to this site, figure are fair and reasonable things to ask of your digital media. First of all, reasonable pricing, so as long as the company trying to sell you this digital movie or digital book or whatever is not gouging you, which means things like rentals should not exceed 1/3 of the price of going to see the thing at the movies, purchases should not exceed the price of going to see it at the movies, all this sort of stuff, these very reasonable sort of requirements for pricing, and there're similar requirements for things like languages; if they movie has a French subtitle track don't take it away from me and then try and charge me extra for it or make me buy a separate version of it to get access to it, just put it in there. Similar things for convenience, choice and release dates, and rights, number five, is probably the biggest sticking point for most people trying to sell content online, and this is probably the one that services that otherwise pass all of these tests are probably going to fall down on number five because a lot of places still put DRM. I congratulate Apple, for example, for taking DRM off of all of the songs in the iTunes Music Store, but the reality is they're still putting DRM on all of their TV shows and movies that they sell which is why it doesn't satisfy the criteria in this thing. So I've signed this manifesto, what do you guys think, is it signing worthy? Brad: I see a big loophole here with number one, and that is all the pricing is based off cinema price, so why not just triple the price to go to the cinema and then they can jack up the price of the whole movie. Brad: I see a big loophole here with number one, and that is all the pricing is based off cinema price, so why not just triple the price to go to the cinema and then they can jack up the price of the whole movie. Kevin: Well played. Kevin: Well played. Brad: Call me a cynic, no, I think overall I like it, I mean I think all these I could agree with and I think it’s something that everyone would agree is fair on both sides. It’s just that it’s such a pain to buy media these days because there are so many stipulations and it’s such a hassle to watch certain things, you know. Brad: Call me a cynic, no, I think overall I like it, I mean I think all these I could agree with and I think it's something that everyone would agree is fair on both sides. It's just that it's such a pain to buy media these days because there are so many stipulations and it's such a hassle to watch certain things, you know. Kevin: Yeah, you can buy your digital book from Amazon, but you can only lend it to people you know, actually you can lend it to people you don’t know as well but only if the fact that you have it to lend isn’t automatically synced to the site, you can manually sync it to the site but not automatically, isn’t that clear? Kevin: Yeah, you can buy your digital book from Amazon, but you can only lend it to people you know, actually you can lend it to people you don't know as well but only if the fact that you have it to lend isn't automatically synced to the site, you can manually sync it to the site but not automatically, isn't that clear? Stephan: And you can only do it once because with a regular book, you know, because when you get it back it self-destructs. Stephan: And you can only do it once because with a regular book, you know, because when you get it back it self-destructs. Patrick: When I started typing this in it was already in my browser history and it made me realize we talked about it on the Copyright 2.0 show, and which is another podcast I host and I have to say in general I like some of the stuff here, but I have an — it makes me feel unseemly kind of, the ultimatum nature of this, as if stealing is really a legitimate choice and in my view it’s not. So, I make a point to buy the things that I enjoy and consume, and so I kind of take issue with that, with presenting that really as a legitimate choice, I think there’s a sense of entitlement there that is unfortunate and so I could not really get behind such an effort. I think the listed items here are in general okay, I think some of the pricing things are a little too stringent, this is a business, I’m a supporter of capitalism, I believe in kind of the freedom of pricing your items and then the freedom of not buying those items if they’re too expensive. So I kind of would rather let market forces play that out and not be dictated to, and there are a couple things in here that are kind of unreasonable and shortsighted such as the release date is global, there are no limits for it in the country I live in, that’s harder to do than you might think, and it would take a lot of different things to come together for that to happen. Patrick: When I started typing this in it was already in my browser history and it made me realize we talked about it on the Copyright 2.0 show, and which is another podcast I host and I have to say in general I like some of the stuff here, but I have an — it makes me feel unseemly kind of, the ultimatum nature of this, as if stealing is really a legitimate choice and in my view it's not. So, I make a point to buy the things that I enjoy and consume, and so I kind of take issue with that, with presenting that really as a legitimate choice, I think there's a sense of entitlement there that is unfortunate and so I could not really get behind such an effort. I think the listed items here are in general okay, I think some of the pricing things are a little too stringent, this is a business, I'm a supporter of capitalism, I believe in kind of the freedom of pricing your items and then the freedom of not buying those items if they're too expensive. So I kind of would rather let market forces play that out and not be dictated to, and there are a couple things in here that are kind of unreasonable and shortsighted such as the release date is global, there are no limits for it in the country I live in, that's harder to do than you might think, and it would take a lot of different things to come together for that to happen. Kevin: Is it really? So, I want to talk about those. Kevin: Is it really? So, I want to talk about those. Patrick: I think so. Think about all the countries throughout the world that have to be serviced through media, how to get everything to them on one specific date; if it was so simple it would already be done. Patrick: I think so. Think about all the countries throughout the world that have to be serviced through media, how to get everything to them on one specific date; if it was so simple it would already be done. Kevin: But it seems, first of all I want to go back to your point on the unseemliness of this because when I Tweeted this site I got a similar reply from Twitter user Derek Johnson who says, “I disagree with the premise, studios shouldn’t make you steal or not steal, your morals should.” And I kind of see that point because, yeah, the unspoken assumption here is I’m going to get your content, as long as I have the money to pay for your content it’s up to you to earn it otherwise I’m going to steal your stuff (laughter), you know, like you say it’s a sense of entitlement, I’m going to get your movie whether I pay for it or not, make it worth my while to pay it, which I think yeah that is quite a — probably a bit of a stretch. If this site were labeled, I don’t know, what’s an alternative title for this site that would get past that? Well, yeah, yeah, I’m thinking like let me buy your stuff would be one. Kevin: But it seems, first of all I want to go back to your point on the unseemliness of this because when I Tweeted this site I got a similar reply from Twitter user Derek Johnson who says, “I disagree with the premise, studios shouldn't make you steal or not steal, your morals should.” And I kind of see that point because, yeah, the unspoken assumption here is I'm going to get your content, as long as I have the money to pay for your content it's up to you to earn it otherwise I'm going to steal your stuff (laughter), you know, like you say it's a sense of entitlement, I'm going to get your movie whether I pay for it or not, make it worth my while to pay it, which I think yeah that is quite a — probably a bit of a stretch. If this site were labeled, I don't know, what's an alternative title for this site that would get past that? Well, yeah, yeah, I'm thinking like let me buy your stuff would be one. Patrick: Sure, that’d be a little more positive one. Patrick: Sure, that'd be a little more positive one. Kevin: Yeah, yeah. But the global release date I really have to disagree with you, Patrick, because first of all we are talking about digital media here, and so anything that limits products availability is something that has to be built on top of it because as soon as you release something on the Web it is global by default, and any efforts you take to limit its release globally is something you have to build extra. Am I wrong? Kevin: Yeah, yeah. But the global release date I really have to disagree with you, Patrick, because first of all we are talking about digital media here, and so anything that limits products availability is something that has to be built on top of it because as soon as you release something on the Web it is global by default, and any efforts you take to limit its release globally is something you have to build extra. 我错了吗？ Patrick: With certain types of content I would say it’s easy to be global. With certain types of content it’s not. I would like to see it happen, but I think that using it as a contingency as to whether I will pay for your service or not is, again, I think strange. And so I think the pricing, reasonable prices are understandable, I think there’re some good points here, again, but the whole kind of thing strikes me as a little creepy, that’s just me though. Patrick: With certain types of content I would say it's easy to be global. With certain types of content it's not. I would like to see it happen, but I think that using it as a contingency as to whether I will pay for your service or not is, again, I think strange. And so I think the pricing, reasonable prices are understandable, I think there're some good points here, again, but the whole kind of thing strikes me as a little creepy, that's just me though. Kevin: My summary of it though, which I posted on Twitter and which I stand by, is that any service that sold movies, books, TV shows, music, that managed to do all five of these things would get a lot of my money. Principles aside, stealing aside, if you did all these things you’d get a lot of my money. Kevin: My summary of it though, which I posted on Twitter and which I stand by, is that any service that sold movies, books, TV shows, music, that managed to do all five of these things would get a lot of my money. Principles aside, stealing aside, if you did all these things you'd get a lot of my money. Patrick: If you don’t have every movie ever made then I will not spend a dime on my movies ever because that makes a lot of sense. Patrick: If you don't have every movie ever made then I will not spend a dime on my movies ever because that makes a lot of sense. Stephan: But if I can rent a TV show, and I don’t — or own a TV show, if you let me buy the TV show for $2.99 or something I would probably jump on that; instead of Apple’s model of well you get the show for, you know, as soon as you start watching it you have 24 hours to watch it, sometimes I have to stop watching what I’m doing and I have to actually do some work or something and 24 hours sometimes isn’t enough time. Stephan: But if I can rent a TV show, and I don't — or own a TV show, if you let me buy the TV show for $2.99 or something I would probably jump on that; instead of Apple's model of well you get the show for, you know, as soon as you start watching it you have 24 hours to watch it, sometimes I have to stop watching what I'm doing and I have to actually do some work or something and 24 hours sometimes isn't enough time. Kevin: Well, you can buy TV shows from Apple but they come with the DRM on them. Kevin: Well, you can buy TV shows from Apple but they come with the DRM on them. Stephan: Yeah, and they’re expensive. Or, give it to me for free with the commercials in it, I’d still, I’d watch the commercials. Stephan: Yeah, and they're expensive. Or, give it to me for free with the commercials in it, I'd still, I'd watch the commercials. Kevin: Well, that’s the Hulu model, right? Kevin: Well, that's the Hulu model, right? Stephan: Yeah, or Hulu Plus, I guess they have less commercials now. Stephan: Yeah, or Hulu Plus, I guess they have less commercials now. Kevin: Alright, that was a really long spotlight, sorry about that, guys. Who wants to go next? Kevin: Alright, that was a really long spotlight, sorry about that, guys. 谁想要下一个？ Patrick: My spotlight is Epic Rap Battles of History. This is from the YouTube channel of nicepeter, and there’s a playlist on there for epic rap and the history, extremely well produced, a funny series of videos pairing unlikely competitors against each other in a rap battle. The videos range from two million to eight million views and feature such pairings as Justin Bieber versus Beethoven and John Lennon versus Bill O’Reilly. And I have to say that it’s not safe at work necessarily because there is some cursing in here, some vulgarity, so bear that in mind, but if you can get past that it’s really hilarious. Patrick: My spotlight is Epic Rap Battles of History. This is from the YouTube channel of nicepeter, and there's a playlist on there for epic rap and the history, extremely well produced, a funny series of videos pairing unlikely competitors against each other in a rap battle. The videos range from two million to eight million views and feature such pairings as Justin Bieber versus Beethoven and John Lennon versus Bill O'Reilly. And I have to say that it's not safe at work necessarily because there is some cursing in here, some vulgarity, so bear that in mind, but if you can get past that it's really hilarious. Kevin: Excellent. Some good afternoon viewing there. Vader versus Hitler. Kevin: Excellent. Some good afternoon viewing there. Vader versus Hitler. Stephan: It is a little not okay for kids under a certain age. Stephan: It is a little not okay for kids under a certain age. Kevin: So what are these actors impersonating these people in a rap battle? Kevin: So what are these actors impersonating these people in a rap battle? Patrick: The person whose channel it is, is nicepeter, he’s in some of them, and then sometimes he has other people playing some of the other people that are in the video, so it’s not always him, it’s not just him, it’s kind of a cast of different people and they’re really well produced, it’s not like two guys staring into a webcam, I mean there’s some quality to this production and it takes them I don’t even want to guess how long they do, I think they want to do two a month now and previously they’ve been doing them at a much slower rate; because of the popularity they’re going to put more out, and they take the suggestions for the pairings from the comments of the videos, so someone actually suggested Bieber versus Beethoven for example. Patrick: The person whose channel it is, is nicepeter, he's in some of them, and then sometimes he has other people playing some of the other people that are in the video, so it's not always him, it's not just him, it's kind of a cast of different people and they're really well produced, it's not like two guys staring into a webcam, I mean there's some quality to this production and it takes them I don't even want to guess how long they do, I think they want to do two a month now and previously they've been doing them at a much slower rate; because of the popularity they're going to put more out, and they take the suggestions for the pairings from the comments of the videos, so someone actually suggested Bieber versus Beethoven for example. Kevin: Excellent. Alright, Stephan, what have you got? Kevin: Excellent. Alright, Stephan, what have you got? Stephan: So, I don’t know, it’s kind of a departure from web development or anything, but it’s the Vimeo staff have released an iPhone app which excites me a lot because I really like Vimeo’s content, and so you can actually edit and record video in this thing and upload it and it’s really cool, so it’s free from what I can tell, I haven’t downloaded it yet but the intro video for it and stuff is really cool, and you can actually download videos that you want to watch later. So if I see something I like I might download it and take it with me on the plane and watch it later which is awesome. Stephan: So, I don't know, it's kind of a departure from web development or anything, but it's the Vimeo staff have released an iPhone app which excites me a lot because I really like Vimeo's content, and so you can actually edit and record video in this thing and upload it and it's really cool, so it's free from what I can tell, I haven't downloaded it yet but the intro video for it and stuff is really cool, and you can actually download videos that you want to watch later. So if I see something I like I might download it and take it with me on the plane and watch it later which is awesome. Kevin: It’s a very slick app as well; it’s just what I would expect from Vimeo. You know when someone sends me a video link and its encoded as like a shortened URL I always kind of hold my breath a little to see if I’m going to land on YouTube or Vimeo, and whenever it’s a Vimeo link I kind of go, ahhh, that’s nice. Alright, last but not least, Brad, what have you got? Kevin: It's a very slick app as well; it's just what I would expect from Vimeo. You know when someone sends me a video link and its encoded as like a shortened URL I always kind of hold my breath a little to see if I'm going to land on YouTube or Vimeo, and whenever it's a Vimeo link I kind of go, ahhh, that's nice. Alright, last but not least, Brad, what have you got? Brad: Yeah, I have a fun little website, it is called ishtml5readyyet.com, and just like you would expect it has a big NO at the top of it, no it’s not ready, but it has a fun countdown to the official date when the HTML 5 specification is final which is three years and X amount of days away, it’s kind of neat. But there’s actually another part to this, if you view source in the code itself the author has kind of laced the code with some funny kind of snarky comments throughout it, and he actually even has some HTML 5 resources in the source as well, so it’s a fun little site. Brad: Yeah, I have a fun little website, it is called ishtml5readyyet.com, and just like you would expect it has a big NO at the top of it, no it's not ready, but it has a fun countdown to the official date when the HTML 5 specification is final which is three years and X amount of days away, it's kind of neat. But there's actually another part to this, if you view source in the code itself the author has kind of laced the code with some funny kind of snarky comments throughout it, and he actually even has some HTML 5 resources in the source as well, so it's a fun little site. Kevin: Very cool, yes. So this is the latest in a long tradition of question URL’s like this from developers. I think the first one I’ve heard of is canrailsscale.com which is just a blank page with NO in the middle of it. But usually it’s funny, it’s like these are tongue-in-cheek things that the point the developer was trying to make was that, yes, Rails can scale, but he’s so tired of explaining it that it’s easier just to say no, no it doesn’t, go away, run along, we’re happy using Rails. So similarly I think that point that’s being made here is that according to this countdown timer there’s still three years and ten days until HTML5 is ready, so if you’re looking for a one-word answer the answer is no, go away, but the answer is actually yes because this page is built in HTML5, and if you know what you’re doing, if you know what parts to use and not to use HTML5 is ready for primetime today, but it takes a little longer to explain that, so the answer you’re looking for is no. Alright, thank you for your spotlights guys, that was excellent, and yes this show has been massive. It seems like when we don’t plan our stories ahead of time we have a lot more to talk about. Thanks again for listening to the SitePoint Podcast, let’s go around the table guys. Kevin: Very cool, yes. So this is the latest in a long tradition of question URL's like this from developers. I think the first one I've heard of is canrailsscale.com which is just a blank page with NO in the middle of it. But usually it's funny, it's like these are tongue-in-cheek things that the point the developer was trying to make was that, yes, Rails can scale, but he's so tired of explaining it that it's easier just to say no, no it doesn't, go away, run along, we're happy using Rails. So similarly I think that point that's being made here is that according to this countdown timer there's still three years and ten days until HTML5 is ready, so if you're looking for a one-word answer the answer is no, go away, but the answer is actually yes because this page is built in HTML5, and if you know what you're doing, if you know what parts to use and not to use HTML5 is ready for primetime today, but it takes a little longer to explain that, so the answer you're looking for is no. Alright, thank you for your spotlights guys, that was excellent, and yes this show has been massive. It seems like when we don't plan our stories ahead of time we have a lot more to talk about. Thanks again for listening to the SitePoint Podcast, let's go around the table guys. Brad: I’m Brad Williams, Webdevstudios.com and you can track me down on Twitter @williamsba. Brad: I'm Brad Williams, Webdevstudios.com and you can track me down on Twitter @williamsba. Patrick: I am Patrick O’Keefe of the iFroggy Network, ifroggy.com, I blog at managingcommunities.com and on Twitter @ifroggy. Patrick: I am Patrick O'Keefe of the iFroggy Network, ifroggy.com, I blog at managingcommunities.com and on Twitter @ifroggy. Stephan: I’m Stephan Segraves, I blog at badice.com and you can find me on Twitter @ssegraves. Stephan: I'm Stephan Segraves, I blog at badice.com and you can find me on Twitter @ssegraves. Kevin: You can follow me on Twitter @sentience and follow SitePoint @sitepointdotcom, that’s SitePoint d-o-t-c-o-m. Visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on this show and to subscribe to receive every show automatically. The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker and I’m Kevin Yank, thanks for listening, bye, bye. Kevin: You can follow me on Twitter @sentience and follow SitePoint @sitepointdotcom, that's SitePoint dotcom. Visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on this show and to subscribe to receive every show automatically. The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker and I'm Kevin Yank, thanks for listening, bye, bye. Theme music by Mike Mella. Theme music by Mike Mella . Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below. Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we're doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below. 翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-106-dont-be-kleenex/ 下载此剧集 (Download This Episode)
SitePoint Podcast #106: Don’t Be Kleenex
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SitePoint Podcast＃106：不要成为Kleenex
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